Hey, all:
After reading one article after another about putting a 5-speed manual Getrag transmission into the 524td, I gotta do this. I'm still learning about these cars and enjoying it thoroughly. I have read several different takes on the required parts/donor cars, but nothing specific. First, let me apologize for bringing this up for, surely, the millionth time. But with more and more of these cars finding their way into enthusiasts' hands, I think a short FAQ on appropriate donor cars and parts would put this puppy to rest for me and probably a lot of other people. I know there were REAL 5-speed manual 524tds in Europe, but shy of getting one of these as a donor, what American BMWs are suitable for this? Again, sorry to beat a dead horse, but a small spreadsheet of compatible parts would be really fantastic. Thanks a ton in advance!
Mike
2X 86 524tds
524td 5-speed manual transmission swap
from what i have read and the part numbers i've crossed, you can use the five speed from the 325e and the 528. they have the holes drilled for the sensors that are used on the eta vehicles to time the injectors and to reference top dead center and i believe these are the sensors the td uses for the same things.
-
BiodieselCleveland
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Can be done
Al Taylor (of altaylorsportscars.com) in NC has done this. He has a BMW salvage yard and actually raced an E30 with a 5 speed and the infamous turbodiesel. Good guy. Good parts prices too.
Would an '82 528 have the right holes? I think there's a difference there, right?superj wrote:from what i have read and the part numbers i've crossed, you can use the five speed from the 325e and the 528. they have the holes drilled for the sensors that are used on the eta vehicles to time the injectors and to reference top dead center and i believe these are the sensors the td uses for the same things.
-
fission_chips
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
1982 BMW 528e transmission. . .
C_Spargo:
I see on the Metric Mechanic website that the 1982 528e happened to use the Getrag 265. Just for that year. . . I have not been able to confirm that you can use this tranny for the 524td - sensor positions, etc. At this point, I'm thinking "not". The only one I have been able to so far has been the Getrag 260/5 (integral bellhousing and no cooling fins). RealOEM.com shows this to be the tranny the Euro 524td came equipped with (with some extra numbers/info that I must admit I can't completely decipher. . .Possibly referencing a different specific gearing for the 524td? Anyone? )
I'm still learning about these, but the Metric Mechanic website has the most complete explanation of the kinda convoluted timeline of Getrag 265/260 transmission development/use in 80's BMWs I have found so far. I recommend this website for everyone on this board; their focus is really engrossing! Definitely go have a look.
Anyone here ever purchased/used an "Ultimate" Transmission from these guys? Looks really fantastic. I think I'll post this question on the main board after a more thorough search of the archives. . .
Mike
2x 1986 524tds
I see on the Metric Mechanic website that the 1982 528e happened to use the Getrag 265. Just for that year. . . I have not been able to confirm that you can use this tranny for the 524td - sensor positions, etc. At this point, I'm thinking "not". The only one I have been able to so far has been the Getrag 260/5 (integral bellhousing and no cooling fins). RealOEM.com shows this to be the tranny the Euro 524td came equipped with (with some extra numbers/info that I must admit I can't completely decipher. . .Possibly referencing a different specific gearing for the 524td? Anyone? )
I'm still learning about these, but the Metric Mechanic website has the most complete explanation of the kinda convoluted timeline of Getrag 265/260 transmission development/use in 80's BMWs I have found so far. I recommend this website for everyone on this board; their focus is really engrossing! Definitely go have a look.
Anyone here ever purchased/used an "Ultimate" Transmission from these guys? Looks really fantastic. I think I'll post this question on the main board after a more thorough search of the archives. . .
Mike
2x 1986 524tds
Re: 1982 BMW 528e transmission. . .
A buddy of mine just bought a euro 524 w/ 5spd. I'll have to check out what's in it...fission_chips wrote:C_Spargo:
I see on the Metric Mechanic website that the 1982 528e happened to use the Getrag 265. Just for that year. . . I have not been able to confirm that you can use this tranny for the 524td - sensor positions, etc. At this point, I'm thinking "not". The only one I have been able to so far has been the Getrag 260/5 (integral bellhousing and no cooling fins). RealOEM.com shows this to be the tranny the Euro 524td came equipped with (with some extra numbers/info that I must admit I can't completely decipher. . .Possibly referencing a different specific gearing for the 524td? Anyone? )
I'm still learning about these, but the Metric Mechanic website has the most complete explanation of the kinda convoluted timeline of Getrag 265/260 transmission development/use in 80's BMWs I have found so far. I recommend this website for everyone on this board; their focus is really engrossing! Definitely go have a look.
Anyone here ever purchased/used an "Ultimate" Transmission from these guys? Looks really fantastic. I think I'll post this question on the main board after a more thorough search of the archives. . .
Mike
2x 1986 524tds
Re: 1982 BMW 528e transmission. . .
I know someone who bought one. It grenaded in a matter of weeks. They then proceeded to argue with him about what caused it to break, trying to blame him for a transmission that literally spilled its guts after a very short period of time.fission_chips wrote:Anyone here ever purchased/used an "Ultimate" Transmission from these guys? Looks really fantastic. I think I'll post this question on the main board after a more thorough search of the archives. . .
I'd say stay away. Jim Blanton is still out there somewhere, he's the one you want rebuilding your transmission. He created Metric Mechanic's "ultimate transmission" and used to do all their rebuilds.
Jeremy
-
fission_chips
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Oh, MAN!
Jeremy:
Oh, wow. Thanks a million (er, ~$2200) for that post! That sounds just horrible - just lasted a few weeks, huh?
Was your friend using it in a track car? I know they made them to withstand the rigors - I've POURED over their website. Just curious as to HOW it grenaded. . . Regardless, it should have lasted YEARS shifting just as he liked to shift; that's what they say it's built for.
Man, this was a truly captivating idea for me. . . so Mr. Blanton is the REAL "Ultimate" behind the Metric Mechanic? Does he rebuild using tapered roller bearings, beefier shift forks, etc? These "improvements" really had me sold. (They were his ideas - why didn't he take them with him? Or did he?) Jeremy, would you be willing to give a little more of your opinion on these? I will take it as such, but I consider your knowledge/insights EXTREMELY helpful in contemplating this stuff. . . So what do you think? Do you have an opinion on the specific upgrades they do to make it "ultimate" or do you think the end result just isn't worth it?
Again, I appreciate any ruminations you may wing my way - I've been dreaming MMUltimate G260/5 for a while now for my 524tds and I'm thinking of backing off from that. Thanks; you may have saved me a lot of trouble and I think you've been able to moderate my recent near-obsession on these trannies. For that, I owe you a beer, at least (my fiance would probably be willing to pick up that tab. . . I'm sure she's thanking you right now.) Thanks again.
regards,
Mike P.
Oh, wow. Thanks a million (er, ~$2200) for that post! That sounds just horrible - just lasted a few weeks, huh?
Was your friend using it in a track car? I know they made them to withstand the rigors - I've POURED over their website. Just curious as to HOW it grenaded. . . Regardless, it should have lasted YEARS shifting just as he liked to shift; that's what they say it's built for.
Man, this was a truly captivating idea for me. . . so Mr. Blanton is the REAL "Ultimate" behind the Metric Mechanic? Does he rebuild using tapered roller bearings, beefier shift forks, etc? These "improvements" really had me sold. (They were his ideas - why didn't he take them with him? Or did he?) Jeremy, would you be willing to give a little more of your opinion on these? I will take it as such, but I consider your knowledge/insights EXTREMELY helpful in contemplating this stuff. . . So what do you think? Do you have an opinion on the specific upgrades they do to make it "ultimate" or do you think the end result just isn't worth it?
Again, I appreciate any ruminations you may wing my way - I've been dreaming MMUltimate G260/5 for a while now for my 524tds and I'm thinking of backing off from that. Thanks; you may have saved me a lot of trouble and I think you've been able to moderate my recent near-obsession on these trannies. For that, I owe you a beer, at least (my fiance would probably be willing to pick up that tab. . . I'm sure she's thanking you right now.) Thanks again.
regards,
Mike P.
-
CoyoteStarfish
- Posts: 1016
- Joined: Nov 14, 2008 6:06 PM
- Location: Miami, FL
Swap has been done, just search.
Get a new TD flywheel from the dealer, this way your tach still works. Don't use a 528e clutch kit if you plan on making more power than stock. Mine slipped its ass off. Use an e30 325i or M3 with a stiffer pressure plate.
You can use any e30 5 spd trans you want. Don't need to worry about bellhousing sensors as the only important one is mounted in the block.
You can use an 82 528e bell housing as it allows you the option of using a 265/5 normal or sport gearbox, only this combo will lengthen the drivetrain, so a shorter driveshaft will be needed. Not sure if 82 528e DS will work.
The auto to manual swap is the same concept of the gasser, the only difference in the flywheel. If you don't care about the tach then use a standard M20 flywheel. Don't use a true dual mass, a "thick" flywheel is fine.
Get a new TD flywheel from the dealer, this way your tach still works. Don't use a 528e clutch kit if you plan on making more power than stock. Mine slipped its ass off. Use an e30 325i or M3 with a stiffer pressure plate.
You can use any e30 5 spd trans you want. Don't need to worry about bellhousing sensors as the only important one is mounted in the block.
You can use an 82 528e bell housing as it allows you the option of using a 265/5 normal or sport gearbox, only this combo will lengthen the drivetrain, so a shorter driveshaft will be needed. Not sure if 82 528e DS will work.
The auto to manual swap is the same concept of the gasser, the only difference in the flywheel. If you don't care about the tach then use a standard M20 flywheel. Don't use a true dual mass, a "thick" flywheel is fine.
5 spd
my current ride is an e30 convertible with 4 spd, I used the 82 528e bellhousing and flywheel which weighs only 13lbs. I am using a 4 spd as this is primarily a track car and am playing around with different rear ratio's. The driveshaft has the front half from a CS and the rear from an e30. The gearbox came out of a Bavaria and is light and strong, I think 26 lbs lighter than the 5 speed. The tach works as I indexed the Td flex disc onto the flywheel, drilled and tapped and put a bolt in and ground it down to match the timing nub.
Al Taylor
Al Taylor
-
CoyoteStarfish
- Posts: 1016
- Joined: Nov 14, 2008 6:06 PM
- Location: Miami, FL
Very nice Al. I might have a 528e flywheel bellhousing transmission pedal assembly and rear end at my disposal soon.
They should all bolt right up?
This is all pretty foreign to me so bear with me.
If the tach comes off the flywheel, what is the sensor in one of the injectors for?
How do you go about finding the differential gear ratio?
I already know the horrors of dual mass flywheels from my VW TDI tuning days. Did the 528e come with a DMF?
What is the 524td's auto transmission worth on the street? What should I try selling it for?
More questions to come. Just can't think of any right now.
Thanks
They should all bolt right up?
This is all pretty foreign to me so bear with me.
If the tach comes off the flywheel, what is the sensor in one of the injectors for?
How do you go about finding the differential gear ratio?
I already know the horrors of dual mass flywheels from my VW TDI tuning days. Did the 528e come with a DMF?
What is the 524td's auto transmission worth on the street? What should I try selling it for?
More questions to come. Just can't think of any right now.
Thanks
They should all bolt right up.
The sensor in injector #4 is for the computer to know when injection happens and know if injection timing should be advanced or retarded or is just plain off.
The diff ratio can be found on the machined flat on the bottom or back(i forget which) of the diff, on a metal tag on the diff or by rotating the driveshaft and counting how many drive shaft revs it takes to get 1 wheel revolution. If stock it will be 3.25:1.
Some of the etas came with dual mass flywheels.
I don't think the auto trannies fetch much. Maybe a couple hundred bux. It won't be much if it hasn't been rebuild or been updated to not burn the A clutch pack.
The sensor in injector #4 is for the computer to know when injection happens and know if injection timing should be advanced or retarded or is just plain off.
The diff ratio can be found on the machined flat on the bottom or back(i forget which) of the diff, on a metal tag on the diff or by rotating the driveshaft and counting how many drive shaft revs it takes to get 1 wheel revolution. If stock it will be 3.25:1.
Some of the etas came with dual mass flywheels.
I don't think the auto trannies fetch much. Maybe a couple hundred bux. It won't be much if it hasn't been rebuild or been updated to not burn the A clutch pack.
Re: 524td 5-speed manual transmission swap
Hello
I just manual swapped a 528e transmission (260) into my 524td. I have a question about the position sensor then is connected to the bellhousing. In my new flywheel , comes from a m50, I have nothing to activate this sensor. It seems to make the car start hard. Is this possible? What is the real meaning for this sensor?
Thanks
I just manual swapped a 528e transmission (260) into my 524td. I have a question about the position sensor then is connected to the bellhousing. In my new flywheel , comes from a m50, I have nothing to activate this sensor. It seems to make the car start hard. Is this possible? What is the real meaning for this sensor?
Thanks