Folks,
Been doing a lot of reading here and finally posting for the first time about my project - see details here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.ph ... 511&page=1 (silly photobucket)
Anyway - on page 5 you'll see where I stopped last year...I got the engine started but it ran terribly...first it took forever to start, then it smoked like a train and if I let the throttle off it would just die...When we replaced the timing belt we only checked the static timing, which I believe to be correct (verified again yesterday). It's time to get this running finally so I brought it in the garage and took off the intake and fuel lines so I can check the pump timing yesterday - will post the results this weekend.
Could this be caused by bad timing?
https://youtu.be/ZW3stIR2X84
Also - while I was taking things apart I noticed that the cables on the injector with the transmitter are deteriorated beyond saving...I looked up the part but it seems it's out of production now - any thoughts? how critical is this to getting the engine to run?
Seeing as I don't have any history of the engine maintenance while it was in the Lincoln, is there a way to reset the pump to "factory defaults" so i can start from scratch? Apologies for the questions but before this the oldest project I worked on was a 2003 TDi PD so this pump is a little out of my comfort zone...
724TD needs help to run
Re: 724TD needs help to run
What injection pump are you running? If this is the Ford engine with the VE non-electronic timing, you do not need the lift sensor injector. The only thing that runs on a Lincoln is the fuel economy display. I actually sourced one for my Lincoln to make that work, but it ran perfectly fine without it. I don't exactly know how critical it is on the VP pump with electronic timing control. The connector bracket on the valve cover makes me think it is not the California model that used that though. Those had 2 lift sensors, one for the engine controls, one for the fuel display, so the bracket has a total of 3 plugs (the other is the crank position sensor).
I had 3 bad glow plugs on mine, it started and ran similarly. It would barely start under about 45 degrees, and when it did I got lots of smoke and misfire until it heated up enough to run on all 6. Glows came from a vendor on Amazon who had them listed for a Mercedes. I don't have the part number handy but if you look it up and search for that number they appear everywhere. Its a standard Bosch glow plug used in loads of things.
Someone had also jacked with the full load fuel screw on mine, it had steady grey haze at idle even when warmed up. One clue there is the idle screw will be backed down very far to try to get the idle rpm reasonable. You may also find that someone has screwed with the cold start setup by moving or removing the cable clamp. There should be a gap between the star wheel and the throttle lever with the engine warm. Mine had none when I got it, and the cable clamp was in the trunk. Turning the fuel down to a sane level let me set the idle screw where it goes, and the high idle system could be re-assembled. Works fine now. There was an article published in Continental Comments about how to screw up the injection pump and wastegate adjustments. Basically it said to crank the screw until it hazed at idle, then back off 1/4 turn. The wastegate adjustment was to lengthen the rod, which actually reduces boost rather than increasing it. My wastegate was held fully open all the time. I have since fixed all that, and I'll tell you that the M21 with the turbo effectively bypassed SUCKS.
If this is using the Ford fuel filter and pump setup, check the quick connects at the filter head. They're the plastic fittings with that hairpin retaining clip deal. Mine had leaky O rings and it was sucking air between the filter and the lift pump. If its gurgling at the tank, you've got air coming in. BMW used a pusher pump in the tank, Ford used a suction pump after the filter. I ended up removing those fittings and currently have the hose clamped directly to the outlet of the filter. I have a proper M14x1.5 to 3/8 hose barb in the mail.
If you PM me an email address I can send you the Ford diesel diagnostic manual that has the injection pump linkage settings. Unfortunately it doesn't cover the fuel screw adjustments but you can at least get the high idle stuff set right. If you're not running EGR about half of the adjustments don't matter anymore.
unrelated to that, and since I can't see your pics, was this out of the two door Mark VII or the four door Continental? If its the four door and you have it still, any chance the headlight bezels are worth a crap? My car is amazingly rust free, but all of the shiny parts are pretty thrashed.
I had 3 bad glow plugs on mine, it started and ran similarly. It would barely start under about 45 degrees, and when it did I got lots of smoke and misfire until it heated up enough to run on all 6. Glows came from a vendor on Amazon who had them listed for a Mercedes. I don't have the part number handy but if you look it up and search for that number they appear everywhere. Its a standard Bosch glow plug used in loads of things.
Someone had also jacked with the full load fuel screw on mine, it had steady grey haze at idle even when warmed up. One clue there is the idle screw will be backed down very far to try to get the idle rpm reasonable. You may also find that someone has screwed with the cold start setup by moving or removing the cable clamp. There should be a gap between the star wheel and the throttle lever with the engine warm. Mine had none when I got it, and the cable clamp was in the trunk. Turning the fuel down to a sane level let me set the idle screw where it goes, and the high idle system could be re-assembled. Works fine now. There was an article published in Continental Comments about how to screw up the injection pump and wastegate adjustments. Basically it said to crank the screw until it hazed at idle, then back off 1/4 turn. The wastegate adjustment was to lengthen the rod, which actually reduces boost rather than increasing it. My wastegate was held fully open all the time. I have since fixed all that, and I'll tell you that the M21 with the turbo effectively bypassed SUCKS.
If this is using the Ford fuel filter and pump setup, check the quick connects at the filter head. They're the plastic fittings with that hairpin retaining clip deal. Mine had leaky O rings and it was sucking air between the filter and the lift pump. If its gurgling at the tank, you've got air coming in. BMW used a pusher pump in the tank, Ford used a suction pump after the filter. I ended up removing those fittings and currently have the hose clamped directly to the outlet of the filter. I have a proper M14x1.5 to 3/8 hose barb in the mail.
If you PM me an email address I can send you the Ford diesel diagnostic manual that has the injection pump linkage settings. Unfortunately it doesn't cover the fuel screw adjustments but you can at least get the high idle stuff set right. If you're not running EGR about half of the adjustments don't matter anymore.
unrelated to that, and since I can't see your pics, was this out of the two door Mark VII or the four door Continental? If its the four door and you have it still, any chance the headlight bezels are worth a crap? My car is amazingly rust free, but all of the shiny parts are pretty thrashed.
Re: 724TD needs help to run
Hey - thanks for the response! I`ll try to get the pictures rehosted on my site...it was a 2 door MKIV if that makes sense? Yeah BMW M21 motor from the Lincoln is now in an E23 (previously 735i) and I'm trying to get it running well...
I gotta get it starting and idling - I`ll worry about the boost after. I'm blocking the EGR and planning on running a Holset unit with an IC once this thing can start reliably although the engine had very low mileage at 150k km so the stock turbo is in pretty good shape actually...
pm sent for the manual
I gotta get it starting and idling - I`ll worry about the boost after. I'm blocking the EGR and planning on running a Holset unit with an IC once this thing can start reliably although the engine had very low mileage at 150k km so the stock turbo is in pretty good shape actually...
pm sent for the manual
Re: 724TD needs help to run
Mine is at 182,000 miles and the turbo has no detectable end play. I was getting some oil in the crossover pipe, but I found that I had a large vacuum leak that was making for what appeared to be excessive engine blow-by. I fixed that and it stopped huffing oil through the breather into the turbo inlet. I haven't had the crossover pipe off since then to clean it and then run it a while to see if the oil returns. I thought it was turbo seals initially but it may have just been crankcase pressure from the vacuum leak.
What did you set the timing to? I think there are different specs for the two pumps. Not sure how different they are though.
What did you set the timing to? I think there are different specs for the two pumps. Not sure how different they are though.
Re: 724TD needs help to run
I tried to get the pics off of photobucket but that's now pretty much impossible...
very quickly - here's the donor:
here's the chassis:
and here's the engine in the chassis:
played with it a little today so assuming I got the procedure right the timing is at:
played with the pump adjustments as per the manuals...don't think the cold enrichment valve (or whatever it's called) was working very well
good thing I took a few hoses off - this one would have given me a headache pretty much immediately
trying to figure out what this is sitting on the side of the pump:
and since I have everything off Anyway figured I might as well sort out the cables now that the EGR is removed since most of this mess is EGR related Anyway
very quickly - here's the donor:
here's the chassis:
and here's the engine in the chassis:
played with it a little today so assuming I got the procedure right the timing is at:
played with the pump adjustments as per the manuals...don't think the cold enrichment valve (or whatever it's called) was working very well
good thing I took a few hoses off - this one would have given me a headache pretty much immediately
trying to figure out what this is sitting on the side of the pump:
and since I have everything off Anyway figured I might as well sort out the cables now that the EGR is removed since most of this mess is EGR related Anyway
Re: 724TD needs help to run
4 door Continental, same as what mine is, just in a different color.
The crusty thing you took apart is the high idle mechanism. Basically its a thermostat with a cable hooked to the end of it. As it warms up, the cable releases tension on the throttle, dropping it back to the idle screw on the pump.
The thing on the side of the injection pump is the advance solenoid. Its powered when the engine is cold to make for easier starting.
For the VE pump, specs are 0.76mm for a belt with less than 10K, and 0.74 for more than 10K. No tolerance, but fair guess says its the same +/- 0.04mm that the other pump allows for.
The crusty thing you took apart is the high idle mechanism. Basically its a thermostat with a cable hooked to the end of it. As it warms up, the cable releases tension on the throttle, dropping it back to the idle screw on the pump.
The thing on the side of the injection pump is the advance solenoid. Its powered when the engine is cold to make for easier starting.
For the VE pump, specs are 0.76mm for a belt with less than 10K, and 0.74 for more than 10K. No tolerance, but fair guess says its the same +/- 0.04mm that the other pump allows for.
Re: 724TD needs help to run
hmmm...didn't crank a whole lot today... 
guess the Ford starter gave up today - gotta source a new one tomorrow...man I really want to get my hands on the BMW accessory bracket...the Lincoln brackets ARE MASSIVE! otherwise I'll have to make my own to put up the alternator and PS pump...
guess the Ford starter gave up today - gotta source a new one tomorrow...man I really want to get my hands on the BMW accessory bracket...the Lincoln brackets ARE MASSIVE! otherwise I'll have to make my own to put up the alternator and PS pump...
Re: 724TD needs help to run
The Ford starter is actually available, I got one cheaper than the BMW version from Rockauto. Not terribly cheap but for such an odd car I'm mostly just happy when I can get things. Looks like just the solenoid came apart, if the starter itself is good you can replace just that part. I think you can get it off without removing the starter. Doing the starter is a pain in the neck. I actually bought some extra long extensions to do it, ended up with the ratchet at the tailshaft of the trans and a good 3 feet of extensions to get it connected.