Hey all! This is my first post!
Just purchased my first bmw diesel (85 524td)
Has ALOT of issues(got it for 1200$) but I'm working on the most apparent problems first.... It has a massive fuel leak.. seems to be coming from the injector pump.. like puddles in my carport.. any suggestions on where to start? OR if there are other common leak point please feel free to let me know!!... This is the dating process for me.
Thanks!
Massive fuel leak (injector return lines resolved the issue)
Massive fuel leak (injector return lines resolved the issue)
Last edited by Twglace on Jul 11, 2021 8:19 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Massive fuel leak
Good news, I know what that probably is because I had that problem
Bad news, if it is what I think it is, the injection pump head seal has failed.
The other possibility, if someone did the timing on the injection pump and lost the copper seal washer under the head plug it will leak badly. Its an 8mm (5/16") copper washer. I found them at my local hardware store for about a quarter each.
The pump re-seal kit is something like 40 bucks, but the idea of messing with the pump scared me a bit so I had it done. That cost about $1500. I have since found less intimidating re-seal guides and I think I probably could have done it. 20/20 hindsight you know. I did the R&R on the pump myself, no idea what shop rates would have been but it takes a while and its not a bunch of fun.
If you're pulling the injection pump, you may as well consider doing the timing belt if the age is unknown. I'd also get the injectors pop tested to verify they are working correctly. Intake has to come off to get the injector lines off. Leave the lines bolted together as they are, it makes putting them back in fairly simple. That also gives incredibly good access to the glow plugs, so if any of those are bad, now would be the time to deal with that as well. Those can be ohm checked at the glow plug timer module. Instructions are in the Ford manuals at least, and probably in the BMW ones. I did my glow plugs with everything assembled. Its possible, just not a ton of fun. The cam cover will have to be off for this since you will need the cam lock tool to re-time it all. May as well set the valve lash and replace the gasket while you're in there. On mine the rubber couplers between the turbo, crossover pipe, and intake were cracked. BMW prices were pretty dumb, so I found some generic silicon hose from some ricer supply place on ebay that fit the bill. Had to trim one down but both hoses with clamps were half what the cheaper BMW connector was priced at. Its just hose.
Specific mentions about the intake manifold gaskets. Realoem will tell you that 6 gaskets are required. The originals were one-hole gaskets. The current part number is a siamese gasket, so each one covers 2 ports. You only need 3 gaskets.
Another thing I found to be helpful, replace the nuts that hold the injection pump with JIS ones. The difference is a 13mm head vs 12mm. That slight change in size makes it WAY easier to get a long extension with a flex socket in to tighten the mounting nuts. My car had 12mm head nuts on the intake and 13 on the IP. I bought a bag of the 12mm ones and replacement spring washers for the intake since many were missing from McMaster-Carr. I can probably dig up the part numbers if you need them.
other than common tools you'll need the cam lock tool and a crank lock pin. You can use a drill bit on the crank, but the proper thing works better. Hole in the flywheel is I think 10mm and the hole in the block is 12? Something like that, the drill bit ends up slopping around in the hole in the block if you don't have the proper stepped pin. There is also a drill bit to lock the injection pump for initial setup. The crank lock pin is not expensive, its the cam holding tool that is a challenge. You'll also need a dial indicator and the adapter to screw it into the injection pump in order to re-time the engine.
Bad news, if it is what I think it is, the injection pump head seal has failed.
The other possibility, if someone did the timing on the injection pump and lost the copper seal washer under the head plug it will leak badly. Its an 8mm (5/16") copper washer. I found them at my local hardware store for about a quarter each.
The pump re-seal kit is something like 40 bucks, but the idea of messing with the pump scared me a bit so I had it done. That cost about $1500. I have since found less intimidating re-seal guides and I think I probably could have done it. 20/20 hindsight you know. I did the R&R on the pump myself, no idea what shop rates would have been but it takes a while and its not a bunch of fun.
If you're pulling the injection pump, you may as well consider doing the timing belt if the age is unknown. I'd also get the injectors pop tested to verify they are working correctly. Intake has to come off to get the injector lines off. Leave the lines bolted together as they are, it makes putting them back in fairly simple. That also gives incredibly good access to the glow plugs, so if any of those are bad, now would be the time to deal with that as well. Those can be ohm checked at the glow plug timer module. Instructions are in the Ford manuals at least, and probably in the BMW ones. I did my glow plugs with everything assembled. Its possible, just not a ton of fun. The cam cover will have to be off for this since you will need the cam lock tool to re-time it all. May as well set the valve lash and replace the gasket while you're in there. On mine the rubber couplers between the turbo, crossover pipe, and intake were cracked. BMW prices were pretty dumb, so I found some generic silicon hose from some ricer supply place on ebay that fit the bill. Had to trim one down but both hoses with clamps were half what the cheaper BMW connector was priced at. Its just hose.
Specific mentions about the intake manifold gaskets. Realoem will tell you that 6 gaskets are required. The originals were one-hole gaskets. The current part number is a siamese gasket, so each one covers 2 ports. You only need 3 gaskets.
Another thing I found to be helpful, replace the nuts that hold the injection pump with JIS ones. The difference is a 13mm head vs 12mm. That slight change in size makes it WAY easier to get a long extension with a flex socket in to tighten the mounting nuts. My car had 12mm head nuts on the intake and 13 on the IP. I bought a bag of the 12mm ones and replacement spring washers for the intake since many were missing from McMaster-Carr. I can probably dig up the part numbers if you need them.
other than common tools you'll need the cam lock tool and a crank lock pin. You can use a drill bit on the crank, but the proper thing works better. Hole in the flywheel is I think 10mm and the hole in the block is 12? Something like that, the drill bit ends up slopping around in the hole in the block if you don't have the proper stepped pin. There is also a drill bit to lock the injection pump for initial setup. The crank lock pin is not expensive, its the cam holding tool that is a challenge. You'll also need a dial indicator and the adapter to screw it into the injection pump in order to re-time the engine.
Re: Massive fuel leak
This is an awesome reply... Thanks for all the information. I have no issues whatsoever digging into the IP. If you had the part numbers for the seals that would be awesome! I've done TDI timing belts in the past so this can't be as involved.
Re: Massive fuel leak
I think the Bosch number is 1467010059 but won't 100% guarantee it.
The belt is not a hard process, only trick is the cam holding tool. It can be done using a square but having the proper tool to lock the cam in position makes it less difficult. Also apparently now the timing belt tensioners are difficult to find. Its been discussed recently. My cam lock tool is a copy made by the Vixen RV club guy that used to run their tool loan program but I have no idea if they have any left.
http://thebestparts.com/Vixen/vixen-td- ... &limit=100
is their loaner, but you should be able to contact them through there too.
The special injector with the wire needs a socket with a hole in it to stuff the wire through. KD 3921 will get you something that works, and they can be turned up for fairly small money. 27mm with a window, I think thats also oxygen sensor size.
I also repainted all the aluminum stuff while I had it apart. The Duplicolor cast coat aluminum paint does a nice job if you're after the stock look without 35 years of embedded oil and aluminum corrosion.
The belt is not a hard process, only trick is the cam holding tool. It can be done using a square but having the proper tool to lock the cam in position makes it less difficult. Also apparently now the timing belt tensioners are difficult to find. Its been discussed recently. My cam lock tool is a copy made by the Vixen RV club guy that used to run their tool loan program but I have no idea if they have any left.
http://thebestparts.com/Vixen/vixen-td- ... &limit=100
is their loaner, but you should be able to contact them through there too.
The special injector with the wire needs a socket with a hole in it to stuff the wire through. KD 3921 will get you something that works, and they can be turned up for fairly small money. 27mm with a window, I think thats also oxygen sensor size.
I also repainted all the aluminum stuff while I had it apart. The Duplicolor cast coat aluminum paint does a nice job if you're after the stock look without 35 years of embedded oil and aluminum corrosion.
Re: Massive fuel leak
gadget73 wrote: Jun 15, 2021 9:42 AM Good news, I know what that probably is because I had that problem
Bad news, if it is what I think it is, the injection pump head seal has failed.
The other possibility, if someone did the timing on the injection pump and lost the copper seal washer under the head plug it will leak badly. Its an 8mm (5/16") copper washer. I found them at my local hardware store for about a quarter each.
The pump re-seal kit is something like 40 bucks, but the idea of messing with the pump scared me a bit so I had it done. That cost about $1500. I have since found less intimidating re-seal guides and I think I probably could have done it. 20/20 hindsight you know. I did the R&R on the pump myself, no idea what shop rates would have been but it takes a while and its not a bunch of fun.
If you're pulling the injection pump, you may as well consider doing the timing belt if the age is unknown. I'd also get the injectors pop tested to verify they are working correctly. Intake has to come off to get the injector lines off. Leave the lines bolted together as they are, it makes putting them back in fairly simple. That also gives incredibly good access to the glow plugs, so if any of those are bad, now would be the time to deal with that as well. Those can be ohm checked at the glow plug timer module. Instructions are in the Ford manuals at least, and probably in the BMW ones. I did my glow plugs with everything assembled. Its possible, just not a ton of fun. The cam cover will have to be off for this since you will need the cam lock tool to re-time it all. May as well set the valve lash and replace the gasket while you're in there. On mine the rubber couplers between the turbo, crossover pipe, and intake were cracked. BMW prices were pretty dumb, so I found some generic silicon hose from some ricer supply place on ebay that fit the bill. Had to trim one down but both hoses with clamps were half what the cheaper BMW connector was priced at. Its just hose.
Specific mentions about the intake manifold gaskets. Realoem will tell you that 6 gaskets are required. The originals were one-hole gaskets. The current part number is a siamese gasket, so each one covers 2 ports. You only need 3 gaskets.
Another thing I found to be helpful, replace the nuts that hold the injection pump with JIS ones. The difference is a 13mm head vs 12mm. That slight change in size makes it WAY easier to get a long extension with a flex socket in to tighten the mounting nuts. My car had 12mm head nuts on the intake and 13 on the IP. I bought a bag of the 12mm ones and replacement spring washers for the intake since many were missing from McMaster-Carr. I can probably dig up the part numbers if you need them.
other than common tools you'll need the cam lock tool and a crank lock pin. You can use a drill bit on the crank, but the proper thing works better. Hole in the flywheel is I think 10mm and the hole in the block is 12? Something like that, the drill bit ends up slopping around in the hole in the block if you don't have the proper stepped pin. There is also a drill bit to lock the injection pump for initial setup. The crank lock pin is not expensive, its the cam holding tool that is a challenge. You'll also need a dial indicator and the adapter to screw it into the injection pump in order to re-time the engine.
So you were definitely right about the timing belt... It has pretty large cracks... With that being said I have a new belt coming in.. is there a good post on a step by step? Do I need to take any front components off? (Fan etc?)
Thanks
Re: Massive fuel leak
There is probably a step by step post but I worked out of the Ford manual since i have a paper copy. Its mostly pretty straightforward though. The Ford and BMW manuals are linked from the sticky at the top of this forum.
fan comes off and the upper timing cover comes off. Accessory belts and the cam/valve cover come off too. From there its all pretty accessible. I did the water pump while I had it apart. In theory you can do the pump with the timing belt on, but 2 of the bolts are right behind the belt path so its easier to do with it off. Fan and timing cover have to come off to do the pump anyway so it was only a few more bolts. I changed the thermostat while the cooling system was drained too.
stick a new O ring on top of the vacuum pump. Mine was rock hard and there was a slight oil leak as a result.
fan comes off and the upper timing cover comes off. Accessory belts and the cam/valve cover come off too. From there its all pretty accessible. I did the water pump while I had it apart. In theory you can do the pump with the timing belt on, but 2 of the bolts are right behind the belt path so its easier to do with it off. Fan and timing cover have to come off to do the pump anyway so it was only a few more bolts. I changed the thermostat while the cooling system was drained too.
stick a new O ring on top of the vacuum pump. Mine was rock hard and there was a slight oil leak as a result.
Re: Massive fuel leak
I've been warned to expect this leak. So I'm watching for that.
I just did the timing belt, but this was on my Vixen motorhome, so I don't think my procedures will be a 1 to 1.
I was unable to find the tensioner pulley, so I had to reinstall the old one.
I did the water pump and thermostat while I was in there.
I got a high quality water pump from RockAuto. The thermostat from The Best Parts. Timing belt off eBay.
Good luck!
Dan
I just did the timing belt, but this was on my Vixen motorhome, so I don't think my procedures will be a 1 to 1.
I was unable to find the tensioner pulley, so I had to reinstall the old one.
I did the water pump and thermostat while I was in there.
I got a high quality water pump from RockAuto. The thermostat from The Best Parts. Timing belt off eBay.
Good luck!
Dan
Re: Massive fuel leak
don't recall if my pump, belt, and t-stat came from Pelican or FCP Euro. Some came from one place, some came from the other. Belt was a Febi Bilstein though. I also replaced the seal on the timing cover just because it looked ratty, I was ordering other stuff, and the cost increase was enough to bump it to free shipping. Its absolutely not critical that the seal be good, at most it keeps dust out.
Re: Massive fuel leak
You are all awesome! Thank you!
Luckily I found that most of my valves are WAY loose!! So I'm adjusting all of them while I have the cover off... Im optimistic it's going to fix my hard/smokey starting..
Just an update I notice a small leak from the IP and good news is it looks like the larger leaking is coming from the soft injector lines... So I'm happy about that haha.
Luckily I found that most of my valves are WAY loose!! So I'm adjusting all of them while I have the cover off... Im optimistic it's going to fix my hard/smokey starting..
Just an update I notice a small leak from the IP and good news is it looks like the larger leaking is coming from the soft injector lines... So I'm happy about that haha.
Re: Massive fuel leak
check the glow plugs. 3 of my 6 were bad and it was a miserable SOB to start. I think BMW has two glow plug related lights on the dash, the amber "wait" light and the green "ok to start" or whatever they call it. If you don't get the second light, I believe that means at least one glow plug is out. Lincoln just gives me a "wait to start" light. If you pop the cover off the glow plug timer you can access the terminals that match up with each plug. An ohm meter from ground to each pin will tell you if its toast. I think its supposed to be under 10 ohms or so. Layout of which pin is what is in the manuals, but pins 1-6 correspond to cylinders 1-6.
the weep line hoses get hard and crack so thats a possibility. I replaced all of that while I had mine out. Found someone on ebay selling a length of it along with the plug that goes on the #6 injector. You can also use a tee and connect a line to 1 and 6 as a return. Not sure it makes a lot of difference functionally.
the weep line hoses get hard and crack so thats a possibility. I replaced all of that while I had mine out. Found someone on ebay selling a length of it along with the plug that goes on the #6 injector. You can also use a tee and connect a line to 1 and 6 as a return. Not sure it makes a lot of difference functionally.
Re: Massive fuel leak
I don't get the green light!! Perfect.. I'll be replacing all of the glowplugs.. I'm guessing they are as old as I am TBH...gadget73 wrote: Jun 22, 2021 11:28 AM check the glow plugs. 3 of my 6 were bad and it was a miserable SOB to start. I think BMW has two glow plug related lights on the dash, the amber "wait" light and the green "ok to start" or whatever they call it. If you don't get the second light, I believe that means at least one glow plug is out. Lincoln just gives me a "wait to start" light. If you pop the cover off the glow plug timer you can access the terminals that match up with each plug. An ohm meter from ground to each pin will tell you if its toast. I think its supposed to be under 10 ohms or so. Layout of which pin is what is in the manuals, but pins 1-6 correspond to cylinders 1-6.
the weep line hoses get hard and crack so thats a possibility. I replaced all of that while I had mine out. Found someone on ebay selling a length of it along with the plug that goes on the #6 injector. You can also use a tee and connect a line to 1 and 6 as a return. Not sure it makes a lot of difference functionally.
Re: Massive fuel leak
I replaced the fuel injector bleeder hose and solved my hard start problem (air in the fuel line)!!! The hose end at the fuel pump was scary.Twglace wrote: Jun 22, 2021 11:15 AMJust an update I notice a small leak from the IP and good news is it looks like the larger leaking is coming from the soft injector lines... So I'm happy about that haha.
Amazon from Badger Diesel part number 6050780581.
I understand there are special needle nose pliers to get the old hose off. I would have paid up for them if I know what I was in for!
Good luck,
Dan
Re: Massive fuel leak
LT_Texan wrote: Jun 22, 2021 4:18 PMI replaced the fuel injector bleeder hose and solved my hard start problem (air in the fuel line)!!! The hose end at the fuel pump was scary.Twglace wrote: Jun 22, 2021 11:15 AMJust an update I notice a small leak from the IP and good news is it looks like the larger leaking is coming from the soft injector lines... So I'm happy about that haha.
Amazon from Badger Diesel part number 6050780581.
I understand there are special needle nose pliers to get the old hose off. I would have paid up for them if I know what I was in for!
Good luck,
Dan
I'm I'm luck because that is exactly what I ordered a few days ago haha (I used to have at least one diesel Mercedes in my driveway at all times) haha
Re: Massive fuel leak
I sliced mine off with a razor. Didn't have a lot of choice, the first one I tried to pull off the injector ripped and left me with a little stub stuck on the injector.
I actually used a set of glow plugs specified for a Mercedes. Same part number, but someone on amazon had a 6 pack of them for a better price than I could get individually from Rockauto.
I actually used a set of glow plugs specified for a Mercedes. Same part number, but someone on amazon had a 6 pack of them for a better price than I could get individually from Rockauto.
Re: Massive fuel leak
gadget73 wrote: Jun 23, 2021 8:14 AM I sliced mine off with a razor. Didn't have a lot of choice, the first one I tried to pull off the injector ripped and left me with a little stub stuck on the injector.
I actually used a set of glow plugs specified for a Mercedes. Same part number, but someone on amazon had a 6 pack of them for a better price than I could get individually from Rockauto.
I must be on the right track... I ordered the set for Mercedes as well haha
Re: Massive fuel leak
I just really want to make this car work haha I can tell she's been neglected in certain areas...
Re: Massive fuel leak
There is something deeply satisfying about taking neglected stuff and making it right again. Most of the things in my life have come to me at some level of abuse or neglect. Even my dogs are pre-owned. Unfortunately cars are easier to fix than animals.
Re: Massive fuel leak
YUP! I completely agree with you
Re: Massive fuel leak (injector return lines resolved the issue)
SO i haven't had a fuel leak for over a month... Not a single drop.. ran it for 10 mins and it dumped a bunch of fuel like before... I'm very confused 
.
.Re: Massive fuel leak (injector return lines resolved the issue)
mirror and a flashlight to find it is my best suggestion. Not easy unfortunately.
Re: Massive fuel leak (injector return lines resolved the issue)
Main fuel screw on the back of the IP! Lock collar wasn't tight..