Hello All
I have a 1985 524TD NA model without a intercooler.
Does anyone have the specs for a intercooler that will fit nicely in this car? I have a cold air intake installed on this car so the front drivers side corner is pretty empty. I was thinking about installing a intercooler here and sucking air off the ground up and thru a intercooler similar to what a 2000 VW TDI has.
If i figured this right, if the intercooler is too small then it wont prove a whole lot and if its too big then ill have some lag?
Any ideas?
Thanks
524TD Intercooler
Re: 524TD Intercooler
Are you going to keep the stock turbo?
Honestly if you're already going to plumb an intercooler I would upgrade the turbo. But then, if your upgrading the turbo might as well upgrade the pump. And a new exhaust. And refresh the injectors. Definitely take off the head to install a MLS head gasket. Ahh might as well rebuild the head. And resurface the engine block. Well since that's out might as well rebuild the block.
Honestly if you're already going to plumb an intercooler I would upgrade the turbo. But then, if your upgrading the turbo might as well upgrade the pump. And a new exhaust. And refresh the injectors. Definitely take off the head to install a MLS head gasket. Ahh might as well rebuild the head. And resurface the engine block. Well since that's out might as well rebuild the block.
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524td-primary
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Jan 24, 2015 12:14 PM
- Location: Southern California
Re: 524TD Intercooler
I had a water cooled intercooler in my '86 524td up until I threw the engine away. If your engine is stock, I know it well enough, and if you're just looking to make a modest performance upgrade without going crazy in work and $$, the intercooler setup I had is probably just the kind of thing you're seeking. I actually still have the components of it sitting around. Maybe we can work something out. First we should talk if you're interested and I'll explain the setup and text you some photos. When I say 'water cooled,' I mean that it involves a small electric pump, a very small additional radiator to mount in the space in front of the OEM radiator and condenser, and a few other things, including a rack that I fabricated for the heat exchanger part of the intercooler to rest on top of and freely flex as the engine vibrates. The best thing about this particular intercooler setup is that I didn't have to make any holes/cut any body parts under the hood or under the front bumper to make it fit. Let me know if you're curious and we'll get in touch.
Re: 524TD Intercooler
If he's not interested, I'd be interested in at least pics. I wouldn't mind adding a bit of extra perk to my Continental, but I don't want to make it look like a plumber's nightmare under the hood. If I could keep it looking as close to stock as possible that would be ideal.
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524td-primary
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Jan 24, 2015 12:14 PM
- Location: Southern California
Re: 524TD Intercooler
I remember reading in the about that BMW diesel being used in a Lincoln That surprised me because I know first hand what an underpowered engine that is (by today's standards for diesels). Ok, so I'd be happy to post some photos of that water cooled intercooler setup. The problem is...and I'm not kidding here...I don't know how to post photos on MyE28.com. I went looking once about a year ago to post some photos here, and I never did figure it out. I never did claim to be a computer tech guy, can barely use my iphone. So, gadget73, if you can simply give me a couple of pointers on how to post photos here, I'll do it. Frankly, I would have already posted some photos when I first responded to bensocket's posting here if I knew how to do so. Oh man, 5 or 6 years ago when I bought my 524td, I ended up spending days and days and days learning that M21 2.4 liter engine. SOMEWHERE, I believe I still have some odd parts for the engine itself, such as the little tiny O-rings you need on the needle that regulates the fuel flow in that ancient analogue fuel pump setup. Good luck with that! But I digress.
Anyway, tell me how to post photos here and I'll do it.
Anyway, tell me how to post photos here and I'll do it.
Re: 524TD Intercooler
never done it, but there is this guide
http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=147488
Mostly just curious what you did. I may never actually modify mine but I won't rule it out either.
If that doesn't work, shoot me an email with the pics and I'll figure something out. mye28 at gadget 73 dot com (no spaces)
http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=147488
Mostly just curious what you did. I may never actually modify mine but I won't rule it out either.
If that doesn't work, shoot me an email with the pics and I'll figure something out. mye28 at gadget 73 dot com (no spaces)
Re: 524TD Intercooler
Also interested in seeing some pics on the water to air setup you created
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524td-primary
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Jan 24, 2015 12:14 PM
- Location: Southern California
Re: 524TD Intercooler
Okay, so I finally just now glanced at those instructions for posting photos here. I've already admitted that I'm an analogue guy in a digital world. I'm not going to work through those instructions any time soon; the brain just shut down about 2 lines into reading it. Before I continue here, I'll mention again that I'm happy to email the photos to anyone who asks. Just send me your email address (my email is gonesailing123@hotmail.com) and I'll email the photos to you.
Anyway, the reason I'm only now writing this is because it's only in the past week that I finally found and pulled the intercooler components out of a serious pile of odd parts so that I could take photos of them. Yes, I've had better things to do. That's why I was ready to just talk with you over the phone to describe the system to you. Here are a few things: I cannot take credit for the setup, but it did work in my car before I replaced the engine.
It was an alternative to having a real, full-sized, air-cooled one because it required no cutting into steel anywhere to run 2" diameter silicone hose and aluminum piping to feed the turbo-charged air to flow in and out of the intercooler, and it did not require a huge amount of space. The components do not have brand names on them. I'll describe them (although if you saw my photos, most of this would become quite clear and obvious and simple).
Essentially, there are 4 components that I'll describe with my own language (that is, I don't know what they're actually called, but you'll get the idea): first is the heat exchanger. It looks like a half flattened football made with aluminum (instead of pigs skin); calling it a flattened football also describes it's rough size. It has two large openings to connect a "HOT air-in" hose that comes directly from your turbo outlet, and to connect a "COOLED air-out" hose to your engine's air intake. To make room for this setup, you should remove the big black plastic factory air filter box and replace the air filter assembly with a much smaller, much more efficient H&R or other performance air filter available at most Autozone or other cheap parts stores.
Back to the football... this "football" can be easily mounted/laid on top of your passenger-side wheel well on a slight angle or else laid horizontally and mounted in such a way that it is pointing into and almost touching the front right corner of the engine compartment directly behind the passenger headlights. I fabricated a mount that is perfect for cradling the football on top of it; again, a picture is worth a thousand words. On this "football" are also two much smaller metal fittings for attaching water hoses; their purpose is to create a closed loop of water or antifreeze getting constantly pumped to/from the small RADIATOR (Component #2).
This radiator (about 1/4 the size of your regular radiator) gets mounted directly in front of your a/c condenser and your regular radiator, directly behind the front grill where there is a huge empty space you might not know about unless you pull off the plastic cowling that covers the top of that space. Simple rubber hoses (maybe 1" or 5/8" diameter?? ...I can't recall the exact size) connect the football, the little radiator, and the LITTLE 12-VOLT WATER PUMP (Component #3) to make that closed loop of constantly pumping water. The water pump is nothing fancy; it's about the size of a 16-ounce can of soda. It's easy to wire and can be mounted anywhere, including in that big open space behind your front grill, or in the cavernous space you'll be creating when you remove that cumbersome factory black plastic air filter case/assembly.
Component #4 would be whatever silicone hoses and aluminum piping you'll need for connecting the turbo with the football and the football with the engine air intake.
NOW I have a much more new diesel engine in my E28, and I installed an air-cooled intercooler directly under the front bumper and behind the cowling there. Mounting THAT one DID require some cutting of metal and lots more work, but it's working nicely. I've been tempted to re-install the smaller, water-cooled intercooler system in series with the other intercooler. The idea would be that first the turbocharged air would be cooled down by the smaller, water-cooled intercooler, immediately after which the turbocharged but now cooler air would then flow through the second, larger intercooler on its way to the air intake. Since I have the parts, I might yet do that. But for now, I've got tons of other projects to do on that car first. And no one I've asked seems to have any clue if installing dual/tandem intercoolers might have any noticeably positive effect on overall performance. Also, if I have both intercoolers installed in series, I'm adding to my powerplant at least half a dozen new things to possibly fail or break. And few things are more annoying than a well-hidden and hard-to-access silicone intercooler hose coupling coming undone/blasting open while you're cruising down the highway (at the posted speed limit, of course).
Anyway, the reason I'm only now writing this is because it's only in the past week that I finally found and pulled the intercooler components out of a serious pile of odd parts so that I could take photos of them. Yes, I've had better things to do. That's why I was ready to just talk with you over the phone to describe the system to you. Here are a few things: I cannot take credit for the setup, but it did work in my car before I replaced the engine.
It was an alternative to having a real, full-sized, air-cooled one because it required no cutting into steel anywhere to run 2" diameter silicone hose and aluminum piping to feed the turbo-charged air to flow in and out of the intercooler, and it did not require a huge amount of space. The components do not have brand names on them. I'll describe them (although if you saw my photos, most of this would become quite clear and obvious and simple).
Essentially, there are 4 components that I'll describe with my own language (that is, I don't know what they're actually called, but you'll get the idea): first is the heat exchanger. It looks like a half flattened football made with aluminum (instead of pigs skin); calling it a flattened football also describes it's rough size. It has two large openings to connect a "HOT air-in" hose that comes directly from your turbo outlet, and to connect a "COOLED air-out" hose to your engine's air intake. To make room for this setup, you should remove the big black plastic factory air filter box and replace the air filter assembly with a much smaller, much more efficient H&R or other performance air filter available at most Autozone or other cheap parts stores.
Back to the football... this "football" can be easily mounted/laid on top of your passenger-side wheel well on a slight angle or else laid horizontally and mounted in such a way that it is pointing into and almost touching the front right corner of the engine compartment directly behind the passenger headlights. I fabricated a mount that is perfect for cradling the football on top of it; again, a picture is worth a thousand words. On this "football" are also two much smaller metal fittings for attaching water hoses; their purpose is to create a closed loop of water or antifreeze getting constantly pumped to/from the small RADIATOR (Component #2).
This radiator (about 1/4 the size of your regular radiator) gets mounted directly in front of your a/c condenser and your regular radiator, directly behind the front grill where there is a huge empty space you might not know about unless you pull off the plastic cowling that covers the top of that space. Simple rubber hoses (maybe 1" or 5/8" diameter?? ...I can't recall the exact size) connect the football, the little radiator, and the LITTLE 12-VOLT WATER PUMP (Component #3) to make that closed loop of constantly pumping water. The water pump is nothing fancy; it's about the size of a 16-ounce can of soda. It's easy to wire and can be mounted anywhere, including in that big open space behind your front grill, or in the cavernous space you'll be creating when you remove that cumbersome factory black plastic air filter case/assembly.
Component #4 would be whatever silicone hoses and aluminum piping you'll need for connecting the turbo with the football and the football with the engine air intake.
NOW I have a much more new diesel engine in my E28, and I installed an air-cooled intercooler directly under the front bumper and behind the cowling there. Mounting THAT one DID require some cutting of metal and lots more work, but it's working nicely. I've been tempted to re-install the smaller, water-cooled intercooler system in series with the other intercooler. The idea would be that first the turbocharged air would be cooled down by the smaller, water-cooled intercooler, immediately after which the turbocharged but now cooler air would then flow through the second, larger intercooler on its way to the air intake. Since I have the parts, I might yet do that. But for now, I've got tons of other projects to do on that car first. And no one I've asked seems to have any clue if installing dual/tandem intercoolers might have any noticeably positive effect on overall performance. Also, if I have both intercoolers installed in series, I'm adding to my powerplant at least half a dozen new things to possibly fail or break. And few things are more annoying than a well-hidden and hard-to-access silicone intercooler hose coupling coming undone/blasting open while you're cruising down the highway (at the posted speed limit, of course).
Re: 524TD Intercooler
sounds like you're describing an air to water intercooler, the water to air heat exchanger (small radiator) and the reservoir tank and pump to make those work.
Did it make a noticeable performance difference? Any idea how much temperature drop you got across the intercooler? I don't expect miracles but a little more zip would be nice. I figure colder charge air has to be part of trying to make more power.
just out of curiosity, what engine are you running in place of the old M21? I figure if mine ever dies I'd like to modernize it. Has to remain a BMW diesel because thats what Lincoln used originally but beyond that its pretty fair game.
Did it make a noticeable performance difference? Any idea how much temperature drop you got across the intercooler? I don't expect miracles but a little more zip would be nice. I figure colder charge air has to be part of trying to make more power.
just out of curiosity, what engine are you running in place of the old M21? I figure if mine ever dies I'd like to modernize it. Has to remain a BMW diesel because thats what Lincoln used originally but beyond that its pretty fair game.
Re: 524TD Intercooler
Thank you for this thread, my plans to start modding the ol m21d24 have changed and I'm going to look at a water to air setup.