Do you have pics of the engine compartment and the location of the above items? I do not like the dual small coolers that R. Korman used on my salvage e12.
To all of you other turbo guys...did everyone retain the a/c or not?
thanks
Marshall
Chrism...re:your intercooler and heat exchange...?
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Bill in MN
- Posts: 1718
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: The Boonies, Mn
- Contact:
Why the focus on A/W aftercoolers ?
For those of you running A/W instead of A/A, do you have a temp gauge on your water jacket? Do you have an intake charge temp display? Do you have a water ciculation/cooling system?
The opinino of the Bell book is that serious road race cars use A/A IC's because they always have enough air moving over them to provide effective cooling, and there's no water heat soak to worry about. The A/A IC is also most effective when its needed most - under WOT full boost for long durations, i.e. blasting down the straight so that you're getting maximum air movement.
Disclaimer:
I do not run a business that designs and installs turbo systems for happy owners
For those of you running A/W instead of A/A, do you have a temp gauge on your water jacket? Do you have an intake charge temp display? Do you have a water ciculation/cooling system?
The opinino of the Bell book is that serious road race cars use A/A IC's because they always have enough air moving over them to provide effective cooling, and there's no water heat soak to worry about. The A/A IC is also most effective when its needed most - under WOT full boost for long durations, i.e. blasting down the straight so that you're getting maximum air movement.
Disclaimer:
I do not run a business that designs and installs turbo systems for happy owners
i can take some pictures in a day or two.
the intercoler locates in the same location as the one TCD sells. the older cartech one is just mostly cast aluminum as oposed to welded sheet aluminum.
the heat exchanger is in the original syclone bracket which is fit and welded into the front valance behind the large opening in the "is"spoiler
Matt, i originally was going to use an air-air intrcooler on my car. without a LOT of cutting of the radiator support, eliminating the aux fan, and A/C, i didnt see any way of getting a 2.5 inch pipe to an intercooler and then to the manifold. nevermond the size of air to air intercooler that would be needed would be much larger then the air-H2O intercooler.
with a large/efficient enuf intercooler, heat exchanger, and fluid supply the air-H2O system will not really get heat soaked easily. if the heat exchanger car bleed off more heat than absorbed by the intercooler, the water will just be a medium to move the heat.
[Edit by chrism on [TIME]1107573002[/TIME]]
the intercoler locates in the same location as the one TCD sells. the older cartech one is just mostly cast aluminum as oposed to welded sheet aluminum.
the heat exchanger is in the original syclone bracket which is fit and welded into the front valance behind the large opening in the "is"spoiler
Matt, i originally was going to use an air-air intrcooler on my car. without a LOT of cutting of the radiator support, eliminating the aux fan, and A/C, i didnt see any way of getting a 2.5 inch pipe to an intercooler and then to the manifold. nevermond the size of air to air intercooler that would be needed would be much larger then the air-H2O intercooler.
with a large/efficient enuf intercooler, heat exchanger, and fluid supply the air-H2O system will not really get heat soaked easily. if the heat exchanger car bleed off more heat than absorbed by the intercooler, the water will just be a medium to move the heat.
[Edit by chrism on [TIME]1107573002[/TIME]]
[QUOTE="Matt"]Why the focus on A/W aftercoolers ?
For those of you running A/W instead of A/A, do you have a temp gauge on your water jacket? Do you have an intake charge temp display? Do you have a water ciculation/cooling system?
The opinino of the Bell book is that serious road race cars use A/A IC's because they always have enough air moving over them to provide effective cooling, and there's no water heat soak to worry about. The A/A IC is also most effective when its needed most - under WOT full boost for long durations, i.e. blasting down the straight so that you're getting maximum air movement.
Disclaimer:
I do not run a business that designs and installs turbo systems for happy owners[/QUOTE]
We went with air/water for a few reasons., both equally important. No adequate space exists for an air on the e28, e24 or e34. Custom bumper covers or serious hacking would be required. Secondly, air/water is more efficient on a street . Consider that at a deadstop a water/air unit is at 100% efficiency. An air/air is at almost 0% efficiency and increases in efficiency as the car travels faster. Considering that almost all daily driving is at low speeds than the water/air is the obvious choice.
The intercooler has a standalone cooling system consisting of a reservoir, pump and heat exchanger. The capacity of our systems are 1.25 gallons. I just installed two air temps to monitor the charged air before and after the intercooler.
An air/air is preferred for a road race car and we advise our customers accordingly. That does not mean that a water/air cannot be used is a DE situation. The intercooler will just be less efficient at the end of the 20 min session than at the begining of the session. The car must be tuned accodingly.
Todd
For those of you running A/W instead of A/A, do you have a temp gauge on your water jacket? Do you have an intake charge temp display? Do you have a water ciculation/cooling system?
The opinino of the Bell book is that serious road race cars use A/A IC's because they always have enough air moving over them to provide effective cooling, and there's no water heat soak to worry about. The A/A IC is also most effective when its needed most - under WOT full boost for long durations, i.e. blasting down the straight so that you're getting maximum air movement.
Disclaimer:
I do not run a business that designs and installs turbo systems for happy owners
[/QUOTE]We went with air/water for a few reasons., both equally important. No adequate space exists for an air on the e28, e24 or e34. Custom bumper covers or serious hacking would be required. Secondly, air/water is more efficient on a street . Consider that at a deadstop a water/air unit is at 100% efficiency. An air/air is at almost 0% efficiency and increases in efficiency as the car travels faster. Considering that almost all daily driving is at low speeds than the water/air is the obvious choice.
The intercooler has a standalone cooling system consisting of a reservoir, pump and heat exchanger. The capacity of our systems are 1.25 gallons. I just installed two air temps to monitor the charged air before and after the intercooler.
An air/air is preferred for a road race car and we advise our customers accordingly. That does not mean that a water/air cannot be used is a DE situation. The intercooler will just be less efficient at the end of the 20 min session than at the begining of the session. The car must be tuned accodingly.
Todd
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Craig -535i- Seattle
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
I'll eventually have an air/water system just because it's easier to install (even on an e34 with more room than an E28). I'll be using this car on the track too and I figure any IC is better than none and with a large enough reservoir heat soak shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Just installed a water injection system today and that's a nice addition as well.
Just installed a water injection system today and that's a nice addition as well.
[QUOTE="Craig -535i- Seattle"]I'll eventually have an air/water system just because it's easier to install (even on an e34 with more room than an E28). I'll be using this car on the track too and I figure any IC is better than none and with a large enough reservoir heat soak shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Just installed a water injection system today and that's a nice addition as well.[/QUOTE]
How's the water injection working? Time to turn up the boost? Our customer in Ontario can run 14psi with the w/i.
Todd
Just installed a water injection system today and that's a nice addition as well.[/QUOTE]
How's the water injection working? Time to turn up the boost? Our customer in Ontario can run 14psi with the w/i.
Todd
I still have my A/C and plan on keeping it. The summers in this area are plenty hot enough to need it -- Plus with a turbo it doesn't put too much of a drag on the car.
As for A/A intercoolers. The biggest problems are: Space, piping, effectivity. If you ever look real hard in the e28 engine bay -- you will understand that it's a very difficult to find a place to put an A/A intercooler. The IS spoiler, bracket and body of the car doesn't allow almost any room to put something outside of the engine bay. Plus the location of the throttle body in relation to the turbo doesn't allow much of a FMIC.
Probably the only thing you can do is put a side mount IC behind the passanger side headlight. Yet that IC is exposed to the engine bay heat and doesn't get quite as much airflow as being behind the front spoiler. This also limits the size of the SMIC -- it can only be so big and so deep.
This leaves options for creativity. I was thinking of doing a nice hood scoop/vent on the side and have a WRX style intercooler developed.
A/W is probably the best bet for the e28s.
-Tj
As for A/A intercoolers. The biggest problems are: Space, piping, effectivity. If you ever look real hard in the e28 engine bay -- you will understand that it's a very difficult to find a place to put an A/A intercooler. The IS spoiler, bracket and body of the car doesn't allow almost any room to put something outside of the engine bay. Plus the location of the throttle body in relation to the turbo doesn't allow much of a FMIC.
Probably the only thing you can do is put a side mount IC behind the passanger side headlight. Yet that IC is exposed to the engine bay heat and doesn't get quite as much airflow as being behind the front spoiler. This also limits the size of the SMIC -- it can only be so big and so deep.
This leaves options for creativity. I was thinking of doing a nice hood scoop/vent on the side and have a WRX style intercooler developed.
A/W is probably the best bet for the e28s.
-Tj
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Craig -535i- Seattle
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
[QUOTE="TCD"]How's the water injection working? Time to turn up the boost? Our customer in Ontario can run 14psi with the w/i.
Todd[/QUOTE]
Seems to help, but I still think it's a bit lean at the high end (slight pinging still, and the FP is only at abou 46psi at full boost). I'll be playing with it tomorrow to see if I can't get it richened up. Since I haven't been revving it over 5K until now I haven't been able to tune it all the way. Once I get that dialed in I think it's time for a boost controller.
Todd[/QUOTE]
Seems to help, but I still think it's a bit lean at the high end (slight pinging still, and the FP is only at abou 46psi at full boost). I'll be playing with it tomorrow to see if I can't get it richened up. Since I haven't been revving it over 5K until now I haven't been able to tune it all the way. Once I get that dialed in I think it's time for a boost controller.
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Craig -535i- Seattle
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
[QUOTE="TCD"]How's the water injection working? Time to turn up the boost? Our customer in Ontario can run 14psi with the w/i.
Todd[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="Craig -535i- Seattle"]Seems to help, but I still think it's a bit lean at the high end (slight pinging still, and the FP is only at abou 46psi at full boost). I'll be playing with it tomorrow to see if I can't get it richened up. Since I haven't been revving it over 5K until now I haven't been able to tune it all the way. Once I get that dialed in I think it's time for a boost controller. [/QUOTE]
You need at least 70psi of fuel pressure at your HP levels.
Todd
Todd[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="Craig -535i- Seattle"]Seems to help, but I still think it's a bit lean at the high end (slight pinging still, and the FP is only at abou 46psi at full boost). I'll be playing with it tomorrow to see if I can't get it richened up. Since I haven't been revving it over 5K until now I haven't been able to tune it all the way. Once I get that dialed in I think it's time for a boost controller. [/QUOTE]
You need at least 70psi of fuel pressure at your HP levels.
Todd
Thanks for the pics Chris, I appreciate the time you took to post them! [IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_im ... 037_14.jpg[/IM
Why can I not get a pic to post ??????????????????????? !@#$ !@#$ !@#$ !@#$ !@#$ !@#$ !@#$
Why can I not get a pic to post ??????????????????????? !@#$ !@#$ !@#$ !@#$ !@#$ !@#$ !@#$
[QUOTE="Craig -535i- Seattle"]TJ- the Ford Mustang SVO and Thunderbird SuperCoupe Intercoolers are designed to work with a hood scoop. They are pretty common on ebay, though they may be a tad small for higher hp numbers. However, it might be a good one to look at.[/QUOTE]
Ok I checked out those intercoolers. They are made for smaller engines (2.2 liter.. etc) -- And I doubt they would flow very well or be very efficient. I'll still keep my peepers peeled for any new ideas.
Ok I checked out those intercoolers. They are made for smaller engines (2.2 liter.. etc) -- And I doubt they would flow very well or be very efficient. I'll still keep my peepers peeled for any new ideas.